9:02 -- Intro. Hi, Gwen. Hope the wingnuts have only steeled your spine.
9:05 -- First question. Both look like they're referring to notes. Hope this doesn't persist.
9:09 -- So far, nothing but boilerplate and talking points. Hope someone is keeping count of how many times Palin says "reform," "maverick," etc.
9:10 -- Interesting that Palin blames the "predatory lenders." This is different from the wingnut trope that poor, irresponsible (read: minorities) people caused the crash.
9:14 -- the "$42,000" tax raise lie again
9:15 -- Palin goes for "talk straight." Yeah, that was spontaneous. Not. Note she switched to saying "Barack" after hearing Biden say "John."
9:18 -- I call "garish" at the size of Palin's flag lapel pin, but I expect my view on this will not be the universal one.
9:20 -- Biden good on specifics of "McCain will tax your health care". Oooh. "Bridge to Nowhere" worked in! Minor zing.
9:23 -- Palin says McCain doesn't tell one thing to one group and another to another. LOL! That's been his entire campaign so far -- flip-flopping.
9:25 -- Palin says she's only been at this for five weeks. Possible snippet for an attack ad.
9:29 -- Extremely clumsy change of subject by Palin when asked a direct question about bankruptcy/mortgages, to energy. Obviously, she's determined to spit out every talking point she's crammed in prep. Wonder if that will come across to people not predisposed to dislike her.
9:31 -- Palin "I'm not one to attribute blah blah" on climate change. Yep, we've heard that before. She didn't mangle it quite as badly this time.
9:35 -- Palin says "nukyular."
9:37 -- Good answer from Biden on same-sex couples. Palin kind of trying to have it both ways, but good enough for her base, I guess.
9:39 -- Sad to hear Biden clearly against gay marriage. Realities of politics, but still sad.
9:40 -- What's your exit strategy from Iraq, Governor? Not answered.
9:41 -- Biden calls her on that. Good man. Could have been a little punchier on his/Obama's plan besides timeline. Good on rebuttal, though.
9:47 -- Palin says "nukyular" again. And again. Keeps invoking Petraeus and Ahmadinejad. And now Castro? More talking points dumpage. Yep, got the "naivety" word in, too.
9:51 -- Biden gets McCain's Spain gaffe into the diplomacy discussion. Nice.
9:52 -- Interesting. Palin doesn't address the Spain thing. Probably for the best -- there really is no walking back that one.
9:56 -- Biden: "haven't heard how his [McCain's] policy will be different from George Bush's." Like the repetition, from the point of view of hammering the underinformed voters.
9:58 -- More clumsy transition to pre-planned talking points by Palin. Clearly, she's reading from notes. Wonder how many will pick this up.
9:59 -- Biden reading from notes, too. Granted, both have been writing them in real time, but some talking points from both sound planned and look like they come from prepared notes.
10:01 -- Biden good on making the point on Obama ahead of McCain on recognizing that Afghanistan was a problem after McCain had earlier declared victory.
10:03 -- As important as the questions that Ifill has asked, I'm annoyed that she has yet to ask anything that couldn't have been easily anticipated. No chance to see whether the candidates can think on their feet.
10:04 -- I am really getting tired of Palin's cutesy smile when she delivers attack lines. Probably works with her fan base. Wonder how the undecideds see it.
10:07 -- Palin mentions, not for the first time, blunders of Bush Administration. Wonder if that will work for the underinformed.
10:09 -- Biden slips in "Bush Doctrine." Hee hee.
10:10 -- Ewww. She just winked.
10:12 -- Palin clumsily says "there you go again." Leftosphere hurls.
10:14 -- weird thing where Palin says Constitution should give more authority to VP over Senate. What's that about?
10:14 -- Palin: "John McCain has already tapped me." Snicker.
10:16 -- Good follow-up by Ifill on the Constitution question. No real answer from Palin on it, but hints of "flexibility" in Constitution strikes me as a weird thing, especially given the way Cheney has run amok. Good for Biden for jumping all over this.
10:18 -- Biden keeps hammering on Cheney. Excellent.
10:19 -- Why does Palin keep saying "tapped?" She stands firm for American exeptionalism. Bone for the base.
10:22 -- I am really tired of Palin's smiling at weird places. It comes off like a news reader, not a serious leader.
10:23 -- Nice to see Biden push back against the "maverick" mantra at the end of the debate. Plant those seeds.
10:28 -- Second time Palin says she has "a very diverse family." Clank.
10:29 -- Maybe the "diverse family" thing is dog whistle to soften the unwed pregnant daughter problem? [Added 12:57: in retrospect, probably more to remind everyone what a Supermom she is, esp. wrt to the Down's Syndrome baby.]
10:29 -- LOL @ Palin claiming she wishes she could answer more questions. Please. And then works in an attack on the mainstream media, too. Please.
10:31 -- Palin smiles while predicting doom. Ick.
10:33 -- Done.
10:35 -- Weird to have everyone on stage after the applause has ended.
10:36 -- The all-important baby prop. Was there really any other reason to bring a 1-year-old to this event?
10:39 -- Stage empties. We now stand by while every MSM pundit says Palin won by beating expectations.
Closing thoughts: No obvious gaffes. I found the whole thing pretty useless. The format allowed for little else besides spouting sound bites and slogans, and since I've been following the race pretty closely, I've heard them all before too many times. Probably people just tuning into the race will feel differently.
I'm sure Palin did nothing but boost enthusiasm for her supporters tonight. I'm 99% sure she did nothing to change the minds of those who think she's not ready for the job. I have no idea how the undecideds will view this. Some, doubtless, will find her cutesiness appealing. Some, I hope, will think it made her look shallow. Ultimately, I think no major changes happen in the polls as a result of this, although there will probably be a little bit of a temporary bump for McCain/Palin. Or, at least, a slowing of their declining numbers.
17 comments:
She did better than I anticipated, in great part due to the format of the debate. But there are huge holes that she can't fill because she has no clue. She is more a cheerleader than a leader...
He was solid. What else needs to be said?
Agreed. I do worry a bit that this will be her only exposure to many casual voters, and they won't realize what we have long since known about her.
I'm finding it very difficult to continue to witness really intelligent, well educated, experienced people using their breath to discuss this woman. (That includes you, by the way.) Watching news anchors, commentators etc, who have spent years of work getting to where they are, discussing someone so intellectually inferior to them, who has so blatantly just cut in line, is starting to pain me. I even feel badly for the conservative analysts who are out there trying to find some way - any way - to get behind her. Listening to David Brooks having to get excited about her folksy-ness because there's nothing of substance for him to say... ? Will we ever recover from this dumbing down?
-Renee
"Will we ever recover from this dumbing down?"
Yes, we will. As soon as Obama is elected...
That's a fair point, Renee. In my own defense, I discuss her not because of who she is, but because of the stakes involved. I think if I didn't ignore her, I'd feel guilty for not contributing to the effort to remind the less well-informed of the danger she represents.
O: You're more optimistic than I am. I think when Obama takes office, the right will get even dumber (work even harder to appeal to dumb people in dumb ways, in some cases).
But maybe, once he starts accomplishing things, we'll be able to drag some people up to a higher level. And just hearing a president not sound like a clown from the podium will have to count for something.
Yeah, I guess I have some hope about this.
"But maybe, once he starts accomplishing things, we'll be able to drag some people up to a higher level. And just hearing a president not sound like a clown from the podium will have to count for something.
Yeah, I guess I have some hope about this."
Yup. You're getting the general idea.
I didn't at all mean to imply that people shouldn't be discussing her. We must. I'm just so frustrated watching really smart, insightful people forced to discuss someone who isn't. Even when they're knocking her, it's too easy - it requires almost nothing of them. It reminds me of these short clips they have between shows on the preschool channel. They have adults in professional attire and professional environments, doing and saying preschool-like things. For example, a guy calls tech support from his desk yelling that he needs a new mouse because, "these shapes aren't going to match themselves!" I'm watching brilliant producers of original thought match shapes. That's what's bugging me.
Go ahead and scold me for letting her watch tv. ;)
I have to agree with, (and I take great comfort in,) the possibility that Obama could raise people's game.
-Renee
JJ: (*clenched fist salute*) In particular, glad the winking bothered you as much as it did me.
R: I'm just so frustrated watching really smart, insightful people forced to discuss someone who isn't. [...]
Gotcha. It's like watching intelligent drama critics forced to discuss reality TV, isn't it?
"Alaska", "Mavericks", "Reform", "Nuk-U-ler"....
Generally, a complete exposure of how little she really knows, other than how to be coached to stick to certain talking points, regardless of how many times a subject comes up, and almost regardless of WHAT the subject is. If it's an uncomfortable subject, just use a two line transition to something you'd rather talk about. Or, actually, to something you have rehearsed more. Biden was an impressive figure who you would have absolute confidence in should he be thrust into the Presidency. I don't know what they were thinking in Alaska, but I'm certain there are many voters who wish they could now change that vote. More importantly, a lot of Americans had the opportunity to look at the two on the same stage and come to the same conclusion. This election is one good Obama debate away from being O V E R.
Exactly my take, John. Did you feel that way from the get-go, or only as time went on? Looking around at other reactions, it seems like it took a lot of the leftosphere half the debate to remember this about her.
I stayed up for this (2am UK time), but only listened to it on the radio. From an ill-informed Brit's perspective, Biden sounded far more mature and intelligent, if a little waffly on occasion. He matched Palin in terms of "man of the people" rhetoric.
Now, Sarah Palin's certainly a pretty girl, and no doubt that's in part why McCain chose her; so without seeing footage, I can't guess how her physical presence might have mitigated her obvious lack of experience / intelligence (compared to Biden) in the eyes of middle America.
But no car-crashes, unfortunately; just the repeated crib-sheet "maverick" (have the Republicans been watching "Top Gun" on a loop?) and the odd Homer Simpson-esque "new-kyu-lar".
Thanks for the outside input, taf. Glad to hear that the Palin clichés ring as hollow over there as they do in my two ears.
As for what you missed by not seeing, my sense is that people who like Palin will have found her visually appealing. Those who don't like her seem to have found some of her non-verbal mannerisms annoying. There are already quite a few people out there on the Web disparaging the winking and the ill-timed smirks.
On Palin's impact in the UK - to be honest, jaws are still on the floor over here as to how such an obviously unsuitable candidate could have been picked for such an important role. It's not about sexism, or even distate at her political views (of which there is also plenty) - it's just about her apparently complete lack of experience, understanding and - well, intelligence.
Even the right-wing press here, including Murdoch's "The Times", find it hard to say anything positive about her. 99% of Brits and Europeans are praying for an Obama win, but I can't help thinking that Obama needs to mix it nastily with McCain in the next debate much more than he did in the last one.
Always makes me squirm when I think what the Republicans' antics are making the rest of the world think of the US.
Truth is, though, there are quite a few conservatives here who either criticized the Palin choice from the start, or who have spoken up after seeing the trainwreck interviews and learning more about her history, or who at least have conspicuously said nothing. It's too late to do anything about Palin now, of course -- no way she can be removed from the ticket at this late date. At least from the point of view of McCain and the Republicans party bosses, anyway.
As soon as I say that, of course, I can't help but think of McCain saying, "Nothing to lose by trying another Hail Mary pass!" But lately, it looks like it's his stubborn streak, not his Maverick (tm) streak, that's in control of his thinking.
As for your feeling about Obama in the next debate: I don't agree.
Emotionally, there's a lot of appeal in the thought of Obama just opening up a big can of whoop-ass on McCain. Many on the left would love to see our guy kicking the other guy while he's down. For once.
But there's really no need, given current trends. Obama is steadily pulling away. In fact, it's argued that one of the things that has contributed to his recent surge was his calm, courteous, and "presidential" demeanor in the last debate.
Besides, there are risks. Everything we've seen since Obama first announced indicates that he's just not that sort of person. It could come of as fauxtrage. The McCain people would go crazy trying to spin it as Obama losing his cool, "not ready to lead," etc., and there is still no shortage of stenographers in the MSM willing to uncritically type up whatever McCain's people say.
There's also the sad reality that there are all too many people in this country susceptible to fear of "the angry black man."
Bill Clinton and a number of other old hands have observed lately that Obama has got the left absolutely solidly behind him, and what he has to spend the rest of his campaign doing is reaching out to people who aren't like us, who would like to vote against McCain (and/or Palin) and the status quo, and need only to be persuaded that the Obama is not "too different." As much as I usually hate centrist thinking, in this instance, I can't disagree.
I'd like him, in the next debates, to be firm and well-rehearsed with punchier criticisms of McCain's policies and history. He could improve somewhat on his first debate performance, no question, but I think he only needs to refine his approach, and not change it completely.
Mostly, I'd like him to be unflappable, dignified, and occasionally humorous, so that McCain's grumpy old man persona stands out in that much more contrast.
... need only to be persuaded that the Obama is not "too different."
That's what I get for making the Google joke once too often.
I'm sure you're right, Bren; I'm just casting my mind back to Bush / Gore, when Bush seemed to gain capital (and eventually Capitol, ho ho) by getting in the cheap shots during the debates, whilst Gore was polite to a fault. I remember being very frustrated that Gore wasn't coming back at Bush in kind, at least once or twice. But hopefully McCain has already dug his own grave, most of all with the Palin appointment.
I expect McCain to be even more on the attack in the next two debates -- really, what else has he got at this point? -- so you're right to worry about Obama being polite to a fault. He definitely has to have a quick comeback for everything he and his aides can think of that McCain will try to throw at him.
There's an upside, though: Given the growing awareness that McCain has been lying a lot about Obama, not to mention his grouchy old fart image, one good sound bite rebuttal from Obama could win the game right there. And there's always the hope that McCain could lose his temper if he gets something thrown back in his face with enough cleverness.
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